Linda White interviewed Elsie (Green) Phillips at her home in St. John’s on January 15, 1996. Elsie Phillips lives with her husband, Fred Phillips, in St, John’s. They have two children, Janet and Gordon. Elsie was born in 1913, the daughter of Mary Carter and Frank Green. Mary Carter’s parents were Carrie and Peter Carter. Frank Green’s parents were Peter Green and Delilah Tuff.

Now then Elsie, let’s start at the beginning, what were your parents’ names?
Mary Carter and Frank Green. You remember Carrie Carter, Caroline Carter. Well, Mom’s parents were Carrie and Peter Carter, Pop’s mother and father were Peter Green and Delilah Tuff, Tuff from Templeman. There were five or six of the Greens and several sisters.

They say that Greenspond was named after the Greens and the Ponds, Did you ever hear of that?
Oh, yes. Two men are supposed to have hidden away, I’ll tell you who told me that. There was a Mr Dewey, he used to live in Topsail or Manuels. Owen Dewey, he worked in the Confederation Building, Your father would remember the Deweys, Frank Dewey and there were several sisters. The youngest sister was in our class in school, Nina Dewey. Someone told me he had a lot of information about Greenspond, I called and talked to him one day. He said would you mind if I came in one day and we had a chat? I said I would be delighted, So he came in, he said that every skipper that came out from England was suppose to bring back every man that he brought out. And when this boat was ready to go there were two men, one by the name of Green and one by the name of Pond, that couldn’t be found. They were hidden away. And the ship had to go on without them. Now they don’t know where the wives came from.

What’s your earliest recollections? When did you leave Greenspond?
I went to Port Nelson teaching in September 1932, no in 1931 because I had my 18th birthday there, I was born in 1913.

You went to school in Greenspond, You went across to Greenspond before the drawbridge was there?
Yes, I took the ferry and it was the delight of the boys to rock the ferry and get us screaming, especially the little ones. And of course, there were times when there were too many for the ferry to take in one trip, and when it was low tide the steps would be slippery. Well, I think your grandmother played a part in getting the bridge there, permanently. There was a song written about it, I wish it could be found, Bill Barrow used to write poetry and he wrote a song about it.

How many children would fit on to the ferry? Was it a boat or a barge? Was it a proper boat?
Oh yes. It was a proper boat, both ends were the same and there was a cable across and you’d pull the boat pack and forth. You didn’t row. There was a ferryman. Albert Osmond was the last one.  That’s Aunt Minnie’s uncle and before that was Johnnie Blake. We’d go over to go to school.

Who was your teacher?
After we passed grade five it was Mr. Crummey. Mr Crummey taught 42 years, 39 of them in Greenspond, He was the only teacher my father had.

That was the United Church school, Methodist.  Did you go right to grade eleven?
Yes, Lucy Carter, your Aunt Lucy, and I took it the same year. There were five of us: Marjorie Pond, Gordon Burry, Myra Butler, and Lucy, yes that’s the five.

Now then tell me your brothers’ and sisters’ names. Who’s the oldest?
There was Peter, and I was next, then Carrie, Caroline Elizabeth Jamieson was her name. She dropped the Jamieson. I told her that we didn’t know whether she was going to live or not, so the doctor baptized her right away, that’s why the Jamieson was added on to her name. That was Dr Jamieson. There was also Frank and Eric.
Peter married Mae Blandford. I married Fred Phillipps, and Carrie married Bill Glover in Burlington, Ontario, and Frank married Ella Harding from northern New Brunswick. Eric was killed when he nine years old. In St. John’s.

You went teaching after grade eleven?
I had three summer schools in St. John’s. I stayed with my father’s mother, my grandmother. I was teaching for five years when my family moved from Greenspond to St, John’s, I had applied then to go to Memorial because the inspector came around and said that summer schools would not be recognized once the full teachers training course was introduced. So I didn’t go to summer school that summer, I was accepted for the full year at Memorial, Yes, I liked Memorial, I would have liked to have a second year but I didn’t have the money to do it. Yes. But you see your Aunt Louie [Louise Carter White] a couple of years before, she had come in to summer school. We used to take, that is those who expected to go teaching, we took school management. It was a subject that we had to write an examination on. School management. Yes we did it in Greenspond. Mr Crummey taught it, Louie took school management, too.

Now, Aunt Louie would be older than you.
Yes, I was between Charlie [Carter] and Lucy [Carter] really. Lucy would have been 81 in June past and I was 82.

How long was the course in school management? Was that after you finished grade eleven?
That was part of grade eleven. We had books that we studied on our own and Mr, Crummey would give us questions, because not all the class was included. You had to work more or less on your own. He’d check our work. We kept the register in the school. We got to mark the register and do things. It helped if you had music because the school was under the church then more so than it is now, And if you went to a place to teach you usually were the Sunday School teacher. Whatever was going on, weddings or funerals, you had to be there.

So where was your first teaching position?
Port Nelson. There was a Methodist school and a Salvation Army school across the cove and Shambler’s Cove was just above that again.

That was where Aunt Louie taught, Shambler’s Cove. Did you board there?
Yes, I boarded with Mrs Peter Wicks. That’s Art Wicks’s grandparents.

That’s Art Wicks down the shore? How much did you get paid? Do you remember?
Yes, the year before the salary had been cut in half so my cheque was $17.28 a month. I paid $11.00 a month board.

Were you nervous at all first teaching?
I had 43 students. All in one room. I don’t think the Salvation Army school was open all year round. I’m not sure about that. It seems that were times when some of the children going to the Salvation Army, some went to Shambler’s Cove and some went to Port Nelson, when their school was not opened.

What year was this?
I started there in 1931. September. The salaries had been cut in half the year before.

So did you get to Greenspond while you were there?
Oh yes, I went home practically every Saturday, There was times there was going to be church in Port Nelson because one Sunday it would be in Port Nelson and it would be an afternoon service and the next Sunday it would be in Shambler’s Cove. If it was going to be in Port Nelson I had to be there to play.

That was a large group, 43 students. Would it be all grades?
I had five little beginners and there was some in every grade and seven and eight was preliminary and nine and ten was called intermediate and grade eleven was junior associate. I taught there two years. And then I had two years in Lumsden. And I had one year at Carmanville. Then I came in and did the year teachers’ training. Teachers’ training had been closed for a while because the government didn’t have enough money to keep it going. So it was closed for a time. Some of the classes did continue. That’s the old Memorial on Parade Street. After teachers’ training I went to Millertown. I had three years at Millertown. That’s where I met Fred and we were married.

It was war time then and the A.N.D. Company couldn’t get orders for their paper, you know, there was trouble with transportation and so they had to lay off quite a few people and Fred was one of those. So he had been doing some radio work, so he wanted to go and learn this in Montreal. Mom was sick at the time and Pop wrote and said that if Fred is going to go to Montreal to come to Halifax on your way. So we went to Halifax. Well, Mom was so sick. There was a radio school in Halifax and Mom had died and so Fred went to school in Halifax. This was in 1943. We were married in 1940. Janet was born in 1942. She was 13 months old when we went to Halifax.

They were looking for radio operators so when Fred got his training we were sent right back to Buchans a year afterwards. Yes, we weren’t right in Buchans we were about three miles outside of it, the airport was. They had a runway and a weather station. It was mostly for overhead travel. The helicopters would fly from Buchans to Stephenville.

Now to get us back to Greenspond. So then, was it your father that worked with Crosbies? Crosbie’s Ships? He got Mom [Joyce Carter] the job with the Crosbies.
Yes. They were home working at the fish when the message came. They wanted someone that was good with the children, that was the first concern, John and Andrew, Andrew was just a baby. John was older than Andrew.

Where was your house on Ship Island?
You know the one that Fred Green lived in. Well ours was right across the road. And in high tide the sea would come up under our house and wash across the road. Once we had to get the hens brought in. We had a back kitchen on the back of our house that was taken down after and we had a packing case and we got the hens and put them in that and brought them up and put them in the back porch, the back kitchen. Because the water was up around the house. The road along in front of Fred’s and going on out to where Mullett’s was, well that was where we were. Fred was on one side and we were on the other. The house had a mansard roof.

We had chickens. We didn’t have goats or sheep. Now your grandmother [Gertrude Carter] used to keep sheep. Yes. And spin the wool. Yes. She was, well, every one considered her one of the better ones at spinning. Her wool was more even, fine.

Where did she keep the sheep? On Ship Island?
They used to take them off the island. There was a little island across from, just a rock out of.

Down by Nanny’s Hole?
Yes, yes, there. Over there on that island. The sheep couldn’t get off.  In the winter, they had a shed down by the old house where your mother used to live, across from Wilfred Carter’s house. In front of the old house there was a wood shed and a toilet, an outdoor toilet, and it was part of the wood shed where the sheep was kept. Yes, I’ve been there when your grandmother was spinning yarn, I believe she did it all there. Your grandfather [Edward Carter] wouldn’t be home when it all had to be done, It was the women who did most of it.

Some people kept pigs. The Mulletts usually had a pig. And your grandmother had a goat. Yes, I believe she had a goat.

You see your grandfather, you see, it was really his aunt that looked after him, I think. Aunt Jane. That’s Alice Butler’s mother. Your great-grandfather was Jim Carter, wasn’t he? He married Louise Saunders. Eliol Carter, his wife was Jane. I don’t know what her last name was. But I suppose Aunt Alice Butler and Mary Whitemarsh looked after your Great-grandfather, more like a brother than a cousin. I remember your Great-grandfather. You see Lucy was named after your Great-grandmother Burry. Well Lucy was your Great-grandmother Burry’s special one. And they said that your Great-grandfather Carter used to say the same about your mother [Joyce Carter], “that’s my little maid.” There was only about a year between Lucy and Joyce.

James Carter, that was Mom’s grandfather, Edward Carter’s father,
Yes. Your Uncle Charlie [Carter] said once that they found grandmother’s grave in Glovertown, Louise Saunders. And that your grandfather had a brother.

Yes, that’s right, and he died in childbirth. Edward was born first and then they had a son, Samuel Eliol, I believe, and he died. She died and the baby died. Louise Saunders was born in Saunders Cove and so I suppose she went home to have the baby.

I can remember seeing the two elderly men, both with canes, yes. And I can see Uncle Jim and Uncle Eliol. There was the big rock there by the, where the new part was built on to the house, your grandfather had it built on. The two elderly men used to be resting on their canes. There used to be quite a few elderly men, and they would gather there around that area. Of course the ferry – there was a little house, that they called the galley. Oh the ferry, it went right where the drawbridge crosses, that’s where the ferry went across.

You know that little island, not Ship Island, the other little island where Margaret and Graham [White] live was there a name on that? Is that where Sam Hoskins lived?
That little bridge was called Queen’s Bridge. Queen’s Wharf. Yes, that was Sam Hoskins, and there was Ned Hoskins that lived across the road. And there were Blakes there.

Now what would you all be doing in the summertime? What would all you girls be doing? Did you have work to do in the house?
Oh yes. We’d help out. Carrie made bread. She was no more than 10 years old. I was older but I busy looking after Carrie and Frank, I dare say. Frank took a lot of looking after.

Did you hook mats?
Louie hooked mats, I know. We’d walk over on back of the island. Every Easter Sunday morning that the weather was fit we’d walk right to the water, to the land wash, on back of the island after the early church service. Yes, that was English Harbour. No not up through Pond Head. We went up by Wheeler’s, and there was the old cemetery there. That was where my grandfather was buried.

Now, Dad’s mother, Katherine White she was from Ship Island
Yes, she was Kate Carter, her father’s name was James Carter, too. There were five or six Jim Carters; Ladder Jim, Navy Jim, Carny Jim, Lofty Jim, Paper Jim, Carny Jim was Ben Carter’s father.  Do you remember there was Harry Carter, and Susie?

Now there was a Harry Carter that was the editor of Newfoundland Stories and Ballads. It was full of Greenspond stories. Would that be him?
Yes, I believe so. There was Sid and Harry, and Susie, George, Frank, Mary and Margaret, Ben and Clara Carter’s children. They lived in that house that Burry’s, Harry and Ena Burry, had next to grandmother’s. That was Ben Carter’s house. Roy Hoskins married Sophie Bishop. Ben was dating her, they were courting. But while Ben was away, Roy started seeing Sophie. So, when Ben came back he brought a wife with him. And Mom used to say how the first time that the old people who reared my father. Uncle Silvie Green, that’s my father’s uncle, saw Clara, he came home and said “Sure she’s only a little maid, she hasn’t even got her hair up “.

Her hair was hanging down. You were supposed to wear your hair up, were you?
Oh yes, if you were going to be married. Well, I used to have mine cut. There was no kink in it. Carrie’s was long.

What would you do in the winter?

Yes, Mom used to say that we would go places because it was somewhere to go, somewhere to get in out of the cold. We would go to a prayer meeting. We weren’t that interested in prayer meetings, but we’d go because it was in out of the cold.

The prayer meetings were held in the Lecture Hall. No, it wasn’t crowded. They were on Friday nights. That was the night we could be out a little longer. It was a lot like the Salvation Army, testifying, and prayers. Everyone would have a prayer and everyone would have a testifying, Joe Butler, you know, Myra Butler’s father, he would like the prayer meetings.

Now, then, can you remember the Hutchins family?
Oh yes, Well, Mrs. Hutchins was a Winsor from Exploits. Yes, I remember. There was Harold, Philip’s son, was killed in the war and there was Frank. He was a musician. His wife was Victoria. There was the missionary. Miss Edith. Oh yes I can remember them. I can remember when she came back, she would always come over to Ship Island and see Grandmother Carter. There was Grandfather’s aunt. Aunt Ann Handcock, Mary Handcock’s mother, she lived with grandmother and grandfather, Carrie and Peter Carter. Miss Edith used to come over to visit. I was there one summer when she came. Edith was very humble, in a sense. She was very sophisticated, a grand person. Edith didn’t go to school in Greenspond. She went to school in St. John’s.
Have you a picture of the Magistrate’s House? I can remember being in that house. That was a beautiful home. It should never have been torn down. There were folding doors between the big room, the parlor, and the dining room. You could push them back. Lovely woodwork.
Oh, yes the Church of England rectory. The study in that had beautiful panelling. There were flowers in the garden out front.

What were the most memorable things for you growing up in Greenspond?

Well, in the summertime, there were two big events: the Sunday School picnic and the Church Garden Party. Both churches had Garden parties.

Did the churches have their picnics together? Where were the picnics held?

No, never together. The picnic would be in the field outside the Lecture Hall. The doctor’s house was on the other side. And we’d have races and games there. I’d play some part in the Garden Party. The Ladies’ Aid were there and there was a sewing circle, the Young Women. And Lottie Hoddinnott and Gertie Burry, well, their work was mostly embroidery. The Ladies’ Aid did knitting and made aprons and pinafores for girls.
We’d have study in the morning with Rev. Oliver Jackson. In the afternoons we’d go out and have a lunch and once or twice we’d get a motorboat and go to Candle Cove. Candle Cove is between Port Nelson and Safe Harbour. And there is a big flat rock there and we’d use that as a table. There’s a long pointed rock there like a candle and that’s where it gets it’s name. The Guides used to go there camping. They’d stay overnight. They had their tents. Mrs. Hutchins was the camp supervisor.

Did you ever go camping with the Girl Guides? Did you know Isa Hoddinnott?

Yes, I went camping once. Oh, yes, I know Isa.

Now, you know the Sunday School picnic, what games would you play?

We’d go around in two circles one on the inside and one on the outside. In couples with our arms linked. And we’d sing. There was one more couple on the outside of the ring than on the inside. And you’d have to get the one in front of you. We would sing a song that went:

There was a jolly miller who lived by himself,
He would grind and make his meal,
The wheel went around and made his grab.

And another we would sing was:

A-hunting we would go,
a-hunting we would go,
We’ll catch a fox and put him in a box,
A-hunting we will go,
a-hunting we will go.

And the other song was:
King William was King George’s son,
On the royal race he won,
Kiss your partner, kiss her sweet,
You may rise up on your feet.

There was that song that Billy Barrow wrote:
When you come home you soon shall see me,
Up the lane to visit Lee,
For there is a balm for all our woes,
Up the lane where Aunt Leah goes.

Billie Barrow wrote lots of poems. Lee was Aunt Leah Gillingham and Rennie was Rennie Pond.

There were two Sunday School picnics: Anglican and United. Did you go to both?

Yes. There were two Sunday School picnics. I would go to both. Most of us would be invited to the Anglican picnic. I would go with Sarah Carter. Sarah Carter was Mom’s sister. The day I was borned was the day of the funeral of my grandmother, Sarah Cross. Mom said that I was born on a Sunday morning and as she was waking up she heard the church bells ringing and after I was dressed and I was put back with Mom and we found out later Grandmother Cross had died. The day I was born.

Now, when you went to the Anglican picnic, they would play different games, I suppose?

The older ones would have a dance at night.

Did you go to the dance?

Oh, no, we were not allowed to go to dances. The United Church frowned on dancing.

What was the other big event?

The Garden Party. It was organized by the Ladies Aid, to raise funds for the Church. There would be people visiting. Mom usually would have a chicken that she would save for the Garden Party. And I remember Swansdown flour. It was a cake flour. And Washington pie. It was like a layer of cake with a layer of jam filling. If there was an iceberg around, we’d get ice and make ice cream. Yes. It was made in a big wooden tub, like a butter tub. You’d use ice and salt. And you would take turns turning it around and around. Vanilla flavoured. We’d have a concert, the young people. Clarence Crummey and a couple of the Wornell boys – Doug Wornell and Eldon. Fred Meadus was there, too. Clarence Crummey brought home sheet music called “The Sidewalks of New York” and that’s what Mrs. Noble (Gertie) had us sing, “The Sidewalks of New York”.